Lets Talk Curly Boy

[ScotTi]

Who is growing Curly Boy? A Croton with long curly leaves with nice colors. Not spoken of much. Lets give this boy his day in the spotlight.

 

[ScotTi]

a few more shots....

 

[Crotonologist]

Nice shots!
I wonder, is Curly Boy different from the old time variety 'Spirale'?
Anyone know any history on this name as far as dates or origins??

 

[Phil Stager]

This was one of the first varieties I planted some 15 years ago. A reliable performer that needs strong light to develop full color.

 

[Jeff Searle]

Scott,


First, Spirale is very different with having a very thin leaf with a slight twirl, twist, whatever you want to call it. Similar colors, but again, the leaf is maybe the width of a pencil.

I've never had Curly Boy, so I'm not sure, but I do have the original Corkscrew, and just wondering if the two are different. Never seen these two side by side, and hopefully Curly Boy is not another "new" name that's been placed on a very old variety.

Anybody?

 

[ScotTi]

Lets talk this one out... 1st pic Corkscrew belongs to Moose, 2ed pic my Curly Boy.

 

[Crotonologist]

Spirale is very different with having a very thin leaf with a slight twirl, twist, whatever you want to call it. Similar colors, but again, the leaf is maybe the width of a pencil.

I kind of suspected that Spirale was a narrower leaf but wasn't sure...
But I thought it was real twisted as opposed to slightly twisted...
Here's an illustration of Spirale from an 1876 article by Thomas Meehan on "Croton Culture" that I stumbled across this morning:

 

[Crotonologist]

(Hope I'm not hijacking this thread too much...)
And here's a Spirale that looks more like Jeff's description, this one an illustration from 1969 by Gordon Gee...
Makes me wonder what happened to the 1876 Spirale - did the same plant morph from very twisted to slightly twisted over the intervening 93 years? Or was it grown under different conditions?? Or is it a different plant altogether???
I know vegetatively propagated plants can shift in appearance over time - I've seen this in big wholesale nurseries in Florida with two large blocks of the same dieffenbachia cultivar with one block originating from one source of cuttings, and the other block coming from a different source, and when standing back looking at both blocks they appear different...

 

[ScotTi]

(Hope I'm not hijacking this thread too much...)
And here's a Spirale that looks more like Jeff's description, this one an illustration from 1969 by Gordon Gee...
Makes me wonder what happened to the 1876 Spirale - did the same plant morph from very twisted to slightly twisted over the intervening 93 years? Or was it grown under different conditions?? Or is it a different plant altogether???
I know vegetatively propagated plants can shift in appearance over time - I've seen this in big wholesale nurseries in Florida with two large blocks of the same dieffenbachia cultivar with one block originating from one source of cuttings, and the other block coming from a different source, and when standing back looking at both blocks they appear different...

Here is Laurens Rainbow that throws a few really narrow twisted leaves. LR shows the same colors as Curly Boy. The 4th pic shows me holding a twisted LR next to Curly Boy. So maybe Spirale is a sport off LR or LR is a sport of Spirale or from Curly Boy or? (see next post)

 

[ScotTi]

We also have Mammie (bottom of these pics) with Curly Boy (top plant in pics) colors same, leaf size changes with more spirale to CB. Did one sport the other? Now where does Corkscrew come in to the mix?

 

[ScotTi]

(Hope I'm not hijacking this thread too much...)
And here's a Spirale that looks more like Jeff's description, this one an illustration from 1969 by Gordon Gee...
Makes me wonder what happened to the 1876 Spirale - did the same plant morph from very twisted to slightly twisted over the intervening 93 years? Or was it grown under different conditions?? Or is it a different plant altogether???
I know vegetatively propagated plants can shift in appearance over time - I've seen this in big wholesale nurseries in Florida with two large blocks of the same dieffenbachia cultivar with one block originating from one source of cuttings, and the other block coming from a different source, and when standing back looking at both blocks they appear different...

Peyton, I see no hijacking of the thread. It seems to tie in real well. But what came first the chicken or egg? Who sports who in the world of Crotons?

 

[Phil Stager]

Going back to the pics of Moose's and yours: Moose's gets less light and therefore more green. Yours gets more light and more color. FWIW, I suspect Corkscrew and Curly Boy are ofne and the same variety.

 

[Crotonologist]

Man, that's a good question, and a difficult trail to follow what with all the sports and hybrids and random volunteer seedlings...
I recently read part of an old chromosome study on crotons from around 1960 that found numerous different chromosome counts from cells in a single root tip. The study mentioned the term "chromosome mosaic"... perhaps this helps explain the "genetic instability" I see mentioned in croton literature.

 

[Moose]

Going back to the pics of Moose's and yours: Moose's gets less light and therefore more green. Yours gets more light and more color. FWIW, I suspect Corkscrew and Curly Boy are of and the same variety.

Phil - I suspect that your suspeciousness is correct. Although my "corkscrew" is planted on a Southern exposure, it is heavily shaded until this time of the year and the southerly shifting sun starts coloring it up. It looks very simular to Peyton's Curly Boy.

This posting made me go put on Elvis singing Suspecious Minds. LOL

 

[ScotTi]

Phil - I suspect that your suspeciousness is correct. Although my "corkscrew" is planted on a Southern exposure, it is heavily shaded until this time of the year and the southerly shifting sun starts coloring it up. It looks very simular to Peyton's Curly Boy.

This posting made me go put on Elvis singing Suspecious Minds. LOL

I also think the two are one in the same.

 

[Moose]

Lets really muck it up. Lady Claire is supposedly a sport of Tortilus. Lady Claire is often refered to as "the Yellow Corkscrew".

Where is Ray???

 

[Crotonologist]

So where does the regular Tortilis (original spelling?) fit in here?
Here's a pic from an 1884 publication...
And a 'Corkscrew'? cutting from the local university - this plant dates back to 1974 for sure, and probably ten or twenty years or more before that...
Could this Corkscrew be the same as Curly Boy?

 

[ScotTi]

So where does the regular Tortilis (original spelling?) fit in here?
Here's a pic from an 1884 publication...
And a 'Corkscrew'? cutting from the local university - this plant dates back to 1974 for sure, and probably ten or twenty years or more before that...
Could this Corkscrew be the same as Curly Boy?

Looks the same to me, but what name came first.

 

[fawnridge]

Curly Boy - definite ID by everyone who came to both Croton meetings at our garden. No pink! Just primary colors. This is in deep shade except at noon and then for only an hour at most.

 

[ScotTi]

Curly Boy - definite ID by everyone who came to both Croton meetings at our garden. No pink! Just primary colors. This is in deep shade except at noon and then for only an hour at most.

Ricky, Are you saying Curly Boy has no pink, and Corkscrew has pink?

 

[fawnridge]

No. Only saying that Curly Boy has no pink. The photo just above my post is actually Delicatissima. I have no idea what Corkscrew is, but I agree, it probably is just another name for Curly Boy.

 

[ScotTi]

No. Only saying that Curly Boy has no pink. The photo just above my post is actually Delicatissima. I have no idea what Corkscrew is, but I agree, it probably is just another name for Curly Boy.

Peytons posted pic looks like Curly Boy to me. The few pictures I have seen of Delicatissima the leaves looked to be more narrow. Also one of my CB growing in a few hrs of afternoon sun have pink.

 

[fawnridge]

The one photo in the Book is not the best quality, but yes, the leaves of Delicatissima are smaller and thinner than Curly Boy. One side of Delicatissima is pink to purple, the other side is green and yellow. Curly Boy is red to orange on the underside of the leaf and yellow with green on the other. Curly Boy leaves are around 1/3 wider and longer than Delicatissima. . .

. . . probably.

This is Delicatissima according to the chap that planted 48 of them along 41st in Miami Beach.

 

[Crazy for Crotons]

Ricky,

Delicatissima barely curls at all. It has narrow, small leaves (like Zanzibar or Brilliantissima) but they have a slight often indiscernable slight twist. It's not what I'd call a pure corkscrew type.

I remember Johnny Shelton telling me years ago that Curly Boy is a newer name for the old Red Corkscrew variety.

Ray

 

[ScotTi]

I thought I would add photos of my Curly Boy as it looks now. The plants receive only late afternoon sun.

​

 

[Moose]

What is the final word? Is Curly Boy and Corkscrew the same cultivar?

 

[fawnridge]

No. Curly Boy has red as it's primary color - no pink at all, except in new leaves before it turns red. Corkscrew has pink in the older leaves. I'll post some pictures this afternoon when I get home from Dallas. Randy and I found a beautiful Corkscrew growing in an alley in Hollywood Hills last year and took a huge pile of cuttings.

 

[fawnridge]

Three different Curly Boys. The third one grown in deep shade.

 

[fawnridge]

Two different Corkscrews. The first two are the same plant with a closeup. The third picture has a Corkscrew that gets heavy sun in the afternoon.

 

[ScotTi]

No. Curly Boy has red as it's primary color - no pink at all, except in new leaves before it turns red. Corkscrew has pink in the older leaves. I'll post some pictures this afternoon when I get home from Dallas. Randy and I found a beautiful Corkscrew growing in an alley in Hollywood Hills last year and took a huge pile of cuttings.

Thanks for the photos Ricky. The 3 Curly Boy plants that I am growing have only red as the primary color. The pinks are only noted on newer growth before turning red.

 

[donroberth]

This “SPIRALE TYPE” Croton has been in my garden now for about a couple of years and I have not been able to put a name on it. Thanks to Scott’s thread and the membership fotos plus commentary, I think mine could be CURLY BOY…can anyone confirm from my photographs attached below ?

 

[fawnridge]

Don - It's impossible to be 100% sure from a photograph, but your plant appears to be Curly Boy.,

 

[Jeff Searle]

If I may weigh in, I think based on the clear photos of Scott's plant in post #25, it's a dead ringer for Corkscrew, and would almost be certain that Curly Boy is a "new name" for an old plant. I have a nice size Corkscrew ( absolutely certain ) growing here at the house in full sun. It's dominant color is red. I also remember this plant being around in the 60's and 70's when my dad grew a few crotons, back in the day.

 

[palmisland]

I saw this one today while traveling in Guatemala. Is this a Curly Boy?

 

[Stan]

Seems like a smaller Mammy. Its changed since I bought in March (time of photo). The greenhouse leaves pretty much fell off and right now its budding all over with green new leaves- a good sign its adjusting to real sun. Seems to do more in less warmth then Petra. A better Croton for California..but ya gotta love Petra's. Sigh.

 

[Native son]

I have had this one in full sun for years. It goes from good color to green and purple as the new growth appears. This other picture just for fun different variety. The top picture is Mamie with all three colors variations red/yellow, green/yellow, almost all greened out.

 

[Native son]

This is a seedling I call Willy Nelson I got from Mamie seeds I captured about 4 years ago. As you can see it to is very unstable, the leaves are unreliable in color and shape but lt grows very well.

 

[Stan]

Update on Curly Boy over a mild summer. Even mild for us. It still grew. To the right. Next spring? I'm adding StopLight for sure. Crotons here are like Coconut palms,only better for pots!