Borgy230
Active Member
- 324
- 06/07/09
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Is there somewhere specific we should post photos?
Is there somewhere specific we should post photos?
Is there somewhere specific we should post photos?
Hi Phil,
The Hot and Steamy is a name I put on a croton from the Richard Krukonis garden. The only one that hasn't seen it yet and that possibly could say wheather or not if it already has a name or not, is Bob Alonzo. And he says he will be by later this summer.
The Prince of Orange came out of the Bob Halgrim garden just after he passed away a few years ago. This was a plant that Bob Alonzo put the name to. And if you were to see them side by side, they really are totally different.
And I agree, it would be nice to add some sort of scale to these plants, it's hard enough sometimes pinning a name down.
Jeff
Dave,
Many people will put a name on a croton until a legitimate name comes along. You have to. Are you just going to call it #38 or # 178 on a plant for a name? And then, every so often when many of us get together at one time and look a peticular croton, it's then that "we" will decide if it's already been named or not. And at the end of the day, many times we all go home and never decided on one name after all.
So...if a plant out of the RK garden that was collected many years ago never had a name ( almost all of the crotons in RK Garden were never named), then why shouldn't a name be put on it? Because if someone's going to start propagating it, and spreading it around, don't you think it deserves a name, a name that everyone should use?
Your to hung up on any croton that dosen't have a name that YOUR familiar with, that it can't or shouldn't have a name on it then. Well, guess what, wrong. And all the seedlings that come along, guess what, people ARE going to put THEIR name on them and it will be perfectly correct.
And don't blame it on the med's. I know you all too well.......
I seeing a serious problem here with this small group of Croton heads. Now the problem is always and again with the colorful names that seem to be known to the few on this forum. Heres what im saying, There are many people in the world like ourselfs that love to put a name on there Hybrids. So again with no reference point Like the actual Hybridizer or Orginal Location of where it came from how can it be legit. The Croton naming process is getting almost out of control, with multible names per croton. How does the average collector know what you say is what it is being the nursery down the street swears its another. Only way i can see to maybe just maybe fix these errors is for someone with a little money to write another book. Just because of the so so many Unidenified Hybrids must have a name in most peoples eyes. I noticed many collectors dont collect for the beauty, they collect for the colorful name some fella is calling it.
I also know many here say come to the Croton Society page for references. But in my dealings with 100's in the past of Emails there are many dont approve of the Croton Society and go about creating there own names as well. All i can say from weighing out this constant debate over names is a Book or Catalogue with some sort of reference area to legitimize there colorful names.
I also noticed mostly the large collectors want to be known as Croton ID experts. Im only saying without a legit answer to anyones questions such as, Who Hybridized this Croton or whats the host Plants or even where did originate then at the end of the day its just another unnamed hybrid.
But if a colorful name on a croton helps generate sales then I guess thats business even if its wrong. Speaking for myself I been fooling around with Crotons for well over 10yrs now, and still cant get a positive ID on the majority of the plants I Had. Maybe this is why i use a few books I have with documented Pictures to compare, Frank Browns Book, Exotica, and Reasoners List they sent me many years back. All others are still UnNamed till I myself see a solid reference to any plant that dont look familiar.
Sorry for my grammar im on medication
Who is our Croton Guru?
we need someone who knows the names of the new varieties.
I see you are starting the book already ...
How are there no new names on new varieties? I believe there are.
Keith Hanks has Cleopatra, Cameo; Jeff Searle has a whole list of new crotons. Just because you are not familar with the croton doesnt mean the name isnt correct of valid.
I completely disagree with you. Just because a name is not in a book or some type of published catalog does not mean it isnt valid.
If someone puts a name on a variety that had no name before, and was even brought before the entire croton society to be identified and no one could, then that person very much has the right to put a name on it. Theres a huge difference between renaming a variety and putting a new name on a variety that is unknown to anyone.
Be very, very careful where you post a picture. The CEO of Palmpedia doesn't like them except in designated areas. You could get a nastygram and that would be the end of it! Warning! Warning! Warning, Will Robinson, mean-spirited people are always lurking nearby!!!
are you one of those self proclaimed experts, calling it a Unnamed Hybrid???
Do you understand the meaning of the word "un-named" it means without a name, nameless. Thus, it needs a name.
And no, I am not saying only members of the Croton Society can identify a plant or may know the name of it. However if the LARGE amount of people that are highly interested in the Croton Society are not able to put a name on a specific plant, I think its fair to say that plant is "un-named" and thus needs a name.
That you have no more room on pages for cross outs is maybe your own doing, perhaps you write too big. or maybe get a second book if your that confused.
My suggestion would be to keep track (in the Encyclopedia) of all the AKAs of various crotons. Anytime someone believes a particular croton has an AKA, that name could be added to an AKA section on that Encyclopedia page. Then at any point in the future, a discussion could be started about the "proper" name for that cultivar - after which a poll could be taken to nominate what the majority of the CrotonHeads think should be the accepted name.
After all, shouldn't it be the collective wisdom and opinions of the learned CrotonHead here to make a final determination of an accepted name?
And of course, this would always be subject to refinement. But IMO, some method of sorting things out needs to be adopted, or else things will never improve.
so Dave, then if a Mutt is a Mutt, lets drop every single name on crotons, and we will have no names, is that what your saying? And whos to say the names are wrong, your the only one?
I'm willing to bet that 90% of the people here and in the croton society or interested in crotons in general will disagree with you.
I agree with Dean completely that is is the collective wisdom that should make the final determination of an accepted name. We are Democratic, not Communist.
Dean - you may want to delete the entire wiki croton photo gallery. According to the Croton Guru, none of the names are valid and all need to be reclassified as Unnamed hybrids?
Many people out there that have crotons have never heard about the names of their plants. I met a man in his 90s that has had some of the plants for over 40 years, and he had no idea what the names were, and that has nothing to do with his age as he never knew the name!
I did read all posts, you clearly said a mutt is a mutt, and your saying a un-named croton should remain un-named simply because its not in a book. Why do the names of the earlier crotons stick and are acceptable to you, because they are only in a book? You are completely and absolutely wrong about the naming of crotons. If someone finds a new palm tree that no one can identify, is it supposed to remain un-named for ever? Your thinking sir makes no sense.
Virtually everything in life is a hybrid, you are a hybrid from your parents. so perhaps we should change your name to Un-named person 1,483,198,543
take a breath, re-read your posts and think what your saying.
Giving something a name has multiple purposes, mainly making it easier to identify and to market. Obviously if it has a name, it will be easier to identify for others, thus making it less likely to having confused people that will get torn apart by the variety of names.
Sounds good but dont think its the answer, To many names floating around even on the common plants. Every garden, nursery, collector has so many names its just seems to be unfixable. And the few books published are not to reliable either. Look at Exotica and Franks book i see despute there also, Even John Bender had no clue and refused to accept most names.
Some people just have to get it through there head making up a name dont cut it. Thats a huge reason why Ralph Davis didnt do it way back when.
Bottom line is Crotons are Hybrids and with 1000's out there that look like the other, Its a no win. Lets all accept that and move on.
Maybe if people agree that there is a specific name for the croton variety, then others will follow.
So since most of the crotons in the book are not patented, we should through out the names.
Creating a Patent does not guarantee the name is correct, you really have zero knowledge of this subject and have little exposure to correctly naming a plant.
your welcome to preach your theory Mr. Self proclaimed Croton Guru, but it is wrong. and makes no sense. You have yet to even successfully argue your side of the debate.
What part of a Reference point dont you understand? BOOK, PATENT. you seem to have some issues with Facts. So far you stated none.
Google the word facts and reference, And remember what you read.
TIP OF THE DAY: Lack of schooling in no excuse.
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