Dave Butler
- Thread starter Bills
- Start date
Crotonologist
Active Member
So he wants to come back?
Yes,
I believe he would like to return. He is as passionate as anyone in Florida about crotons, and could add a lot here. But what would be the point if he came back, and someone made a comment he interpreted as a challenge, and he responded with impolite and personal comments like before. That's all it would take for a repeat of what we just went through.
So, if he were to come back, two things would have to happen. 1) He would need to reassure me that he would be willing to accept a one month probationary period during which he would guarantee that he would discuss crotons without dragging in the personal differences that some CrotonHeads have with one another - even if someone makes a marginal comment. He would have to bite his tongue and let me handle the moderating - not immediately fire back. 2) Those people who post here, who Dave has offended in the past, would also have to assure me they would attempt to keep any differences they may have away from here, and let Dave prove that he wants to be a worthwhile addition here.
I don't think I have that solid commitment yet from Dave, or from what I can tell, there are some here that would have a hard time accepting a last ditch effort on Dave's part to fit in.
I believe he would like to return. He is as passionate as anyone in Florida about crotons, and could add a lot here. But what would be the point if he came back, and someone made a comment he interpreted as a challenge, and he responded with impolite and personal comments like before. That's all it would take for a repeat of what we just went through.
So, if he were to come back, two things would have to happen. 1) He would need to reassure me that he would be willing to accept a one month probationary period during which he would guarantee that he would discuss crotons without dragging in the personal differences that some CrotonHeads have with one another - even if someone makes a marginal comment. He would have to bite his tongue and let me handle the moderating - not immediately fire back. 2) Those people who post here, who Dave has offended in the past, would also have to assure me they would attempt to keep any differences they may have away from here, and let Dave prove that he wants to be a worthwhile addition here.
I don't think I have that solid commitment yet from Dave, or from what I can tell, there are some here that would have a hard time accepting a last ditch effort on Dave's part to fit in.
crotons.net
Active Member
Why would he want to be on here so many people have jumped on the bandwagon to crucify him. It is some kind of big joke to instigate trouble with him and then you guys gang up on him when he gets angry and vote to boot him.Its almost as if you don't agree with the majority or try to defend yourself watch out you will get kicked.
It seems to me jeff searle had all of his buddies from the palm forum vote on the poll so Dave got the axe but yet its ok for someone to go on my web site and steal my photos of plants on my property and post them here after renaming them ..........unbelievable.
Even when it said do not use images without my permission
I will probably get kicked next for posting my own opinion
It seems to me jeff searle had all of his buddies from the palm forum vote on the poll so Dave got the axe but yet its ok for someone to go on my web site and steal my photos of plants on my property and post them here after renaming them ..........unbelievable.
Even when it said do not use images without my permission
I will probably get kicked next for posting my own opinion
Let me re-emphasize that the poll was just one way to encourage feedback. Many did not want to comment publicly, but they could vote anonymously. And I did receive a fair amount of feedback privately - both pro and con.
And the poll did break down more or less 50/50 on whether to allow Dave another chance. So there was not overwhelming consensus either way after analyzing all the input.
That is why I have left it up to Dave on one side to be willing to keep the volume down for a while if let back, and to the others to allow one more chance without provocation. But I don't know if that is possible. But I am willing to be convinced.
And the poll did break down more or less 50/50 on whether to allow Dave another chance. So there was not overwhelming consensus either way after analyzing all the input.
That is why I have left it up to Dave on one side to be willing to keep the volume down for a while if let back, and to the others to allow one more chance without provocation. But I don't know if that is possible. But I am willing to be convinced.
Borgy230
Active Member
This is probably better met for a private PM, but once he was gone, did anyone else notice the amount of posting that came back on!!! And now we have a new negative downer, someone who is going on Croton Mania's forum and bashing the society.
As its been said before, this forum is under the society, if someone is found to be bashing it, then they should first off be big enough to just walk away, and secondly if they continue, just get rid of them. One worm can spoil the whole bag of apples as we clearly saw a week ago.
I think its funny that there was no mention of this one person, but then others who are posting on his forum now, saying how this "group" is not welcoming anyone ect and bashing this group is on here voicing their opinion that this trouble maker individual should be allowed back.
Its like anything in society, wether its a group on a foum, a team of some sort, or even a group of friends, theres always a trouble maker, and sometimes its better to get rid of this trouble maker for the better of the entire group, even if they may have some knowledge to contribute
On another note, this new member Crotons.net and Butler are continously bashing Jeff Searle here and on the Croton Mania forum. Pretty much everyone knows I am close friends with Jeff, I have worked at his nursery, helped him in his yard numerous times, visited gardens, traveled to other countries to collect plant material, and drive around florida many times hunting crotons. Anyone who wants to say that he is ganging up on butler, or as Mr. Butler posted about his nursery "buyer be ware" is entirely out of line and incorrect.
Jeff grows the crotons for the love of it. And absolutely no offense to anyone out there, but I feel no one is as generous as he is with the crotons. For every meeting he donates about a half to a dozen crotons, all good size, 3 gallons, and usually on the rarer side. When you trade with him you always get a big healthy plant, and I have numerous times seen him just give someone a plant to see their excitement about crotons. When we are driving around, he always knocks on the persons door and asks permission before taking a cutting, and if they are not home, he will leave a note or just come back again and hope they are home, he has never and never would just take a cutting on his own, even if the owner may not have a clue.
So obviously this new member's intentions (after coming here under a different name "BUD" and asking to be deleted and banned) are only to create problems and try to talk down about someone.
As its been said before, this forum is under the society, if someone is found to be bashing it, then they should first off be big enough to just walk away, and secondly if they continue, just get rid of them. One worm can spoil the whole bag of apples as we clearly saw a week ago.
I think its funny that there was no mention of this one person, but then others who are posting on his forum now, saying how this "group" is not welcoming anyone ect and bashing this group is on here voicing their opinion that this trouble maker individual should be allowed back.
Its like anything in society, wether its a group on a foum, a team of some sort, or even a group of friends, theres always a trouble maker, and sometimes its better to get rid of this trouble maker for the better of the entire group, even if they may have some knowledge to contribute
On another note, this new member Crotons.net and Butler are continously bashing Jeff Searle here and on the Croton Mania forum. Pretty much everyone knows I am close friends with Jeff, I have worked at his nursery, helped him in his yard numerous times, visited gardens, traveled to other countries to collect plant material, and drive around florida many times hunting crotons. Anyone who wants to say that he is ganging up on butler, or as Mr. Butler posted about his nursery "buyer be ware" is entirely out of line and incorrect.
Jeff grows the crotons for the love of it. And absolutely no offense to anyone out there, but I feel no one is as generous as he is with the crotons. For every meeting he donates about a half to a dozen crotons, all good size, 3 gallons, and usually on the rarer side. When you trade with him you always get a big healthy plant, and I have numerous times seen him just give someone a plant to see their excitement about crotons. When we are driving around, he always knocks on the persons door and asks permission before taking a cutting, and if they are not home, he will leave a note or just come back again and hope they are home, he has never and never would just take a cutting on his own, even if the owner may not have a clue.
So obviously this new member's intentions (after coming here under a different name "BUD" and asking to be deleted and banned) are only to create problems and try to talk down about someone.
junglegal
Esteemed Member
Crotons.net you are out of line about Jeff and completely wrong. He's one of the good guys and a generous one at that. We welcome all as long as you are a proactive member of this forum. Your toxic agenda against him is best left off of this site. This forum exists to talk crotons, not to belittle our members. Opinions about crotons OK, negative 'opinions' about members are not. Show some couth. Take it up privately.
Moose has apologized for using your photos. I don't think he meant any harm & has learned from it.
Moose has apologized for using your photos. I don't think he meant any harm & has learned from it.
fawnridge
Well-Known Member
Once again, we have a thread that has nothing to do with Crotons and everything to do with turning folks away from here. Dean, I can't imagine why you'd leave this thread going, but then again, you've said you're the CEO here so that about answers it.
As far as Jeff Searle goes. . .
I've only known Jeff for around 10 or 11 years, but I think I know him well enough to say that anyone who thinks he would spend the time on a personal attack on ANYONE via the web is not only wrong but foolish as well. Those of us who do post more often than others either work from home or don't have real jobs. Jeff runs a business, a wonderful nursery in fact, and for him to put forth the effort he does here and with the Croton Society can't possibly leave him with the spare time to do what some have suggested. Beyond that, I don't think that ANYONE should be using this or any forum for that purpose.
As far as Jeff Searle goes. . .
I've only known Jeff for around 10 or 11 years, but I think I know him well enough to say that anyone who thinks he would spend the time on a personal attack on ANYONE via the web is not only wrong but foolish as well. Those of us who do post more often than others either work from home or don't have real jobs. Jeff runs a business, a wonderful nursery in fact, and for him to put forth the effort he does here and with the Croton Society can't possibly leave him with the spare time to do what some have suggested. Beyond that, I don't think that ANYONE should be using this or any forum for that purpose.
Borgy230
Active Member
lets just delete the thread, get rid of the trouble makers and continue on our happy way. thats my personal opinion. Its nice to have new people, get new people involved, ect. and your never going to win over ever person, some may read this and think what they think, others may read this stuff and think big deal, im here for the plants. Obviously the guy cant handle online forums as he was earlier banned from Palmtalk.
seems history repeats itself.
seems history repeats itself.
Crotonologist
Active Member
As an impartial/neutral observer in this matter, let me just say that from what I have seen Mr. Butler has pretty much brought his troubles with him to this forum and made his own bed so to speak...
This is not a big joke played on Dave - he caused the trouble, even if some members aggravated the situation by not knowing well enough to leave the crazy uncle in the room alone...
With that said, let me just say that I voted to give him another chance, and still am willing to do that, as I welcome all opinions and believe that an open debate/discussion is a great thing, but Dave seems to not want to discuss some topics like naming crotons for example and just insists that everyone is wrong and that there is no solution to the naming problem...
I welcome Dave's expertise, but not his pettiness when it comes to ideas he doesn't agree with...
And as for his past disputes/misunderstandings/dealings with Jeff, this is not the place for him to publicly air his dirty laundry - that should be taken up in private with his old friend so that they can remain friends or part company, but please leave this croton discussion forum out of it.
And as for cliques, this forum is open to the public and the members strike me as a friendly bunch overall so that clique crap dog don't hunt as they say...
However, this is a croton clique and all friendly croton aficionados are welcome.
Furthermore, Croton Society bashing, as opposed to discussing ideas for and about the Society, has no place here - if someone just wants to tear it down please do that someplace else.
Or better yet join the Society and make some positive contributions.
And AFAIK the Croton Society did not make the poll about Dave, that was done by the guy that runs this board here - I never saw that the poll was a Croton Society thing...
I would like to see the croton wiki here become an official Codiaeum Registry recognized internationally, and be the place to register new crotons and to check the history and validity of croton names.
I would welcome Dave's participation here - I think he could make some valuable contributions, even if they are sometimes difficult to read and follow...
crotons.net
Active Member
I was not here to start any trouble and I have every right to voice my opinions
I have been involved in collecting these plants for over 10 years I am also passionate about these plants
There were a lot of things that went on behind the scenes in this David Butler saga and I do not agree with Mr Butler very often but in this instance you guys are wrong.I have FIRST HAND knowledge of the situation and yet people who do not know me or about me automatically accuse me of attacking Mr Searle
Someone said I don't know how to use a forum just to clear the air I was building computers when that person was riding his big wheel.(yes I checked his age)I came here hoping to contribute and then noticed someone took pictures from my site without permission and posted them asking for names which upset as it would anyone I would have given them the names if they would have emailed me.I apologize to everyone who was offended by my posts and I will not post here any longer as I am sure I am not welcome
I have asked that the thread with my photos be deleted and and yet it is still up which totally confounds me
Its not too hard to figure I live in Loxahatchee when Mr Searles neighbor was my old neighbor.so the comment was made to anger me which it does not.
Thanks again to all the decent and respectful people on here for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
I have been involved in collecting these plants for over 10 years I am also passionate about these plants
There were a lot of things that went on behind the scenes in this David Butler saga and I do not agree with Mr Butler very often but in this instance you guys are wrong.I have FIRST HAND knowledge of the situation and yet people who do not know me or about me automatically accuse me of attacking Mr Searle
Someone said I don't know how to use a forum just to clear the air I was building computers when that person was riding his big wheel.(yes I checked his age)I came here hoping to contribute and then noticed someone took pictures from my site without permission and posted them asking for names which upset as it would anyone I would have given them the names if they would have emailed me.I apologize to everyone who was offended by my posts and I will not post here any longer as I am sure I am not welcome
I have asked that the thread with my photos be deleted and and yet it is still up which totally confounds me
Its not too hard to figure I live in Loxahatchee when Mr Searles neighbor was my old neighbor.so the comment was made to anger me which it does not.
Thanks again to all the decent and respectful people on here for the opportunity to voice my opinion.
I immediately responded to you last night indicating that if you told me which photos were yours, and in what topic they appeared, I would remove them.
I also said that there was no way for me to memorize the photos on your site, and then peruse all of the posts here and properly identify them. In fact, here is a copy of the email I sent you. And unless I missed it, you have not responded.
"Of course Bud. I've been meaning to get back to you anyhow. I should have a chance to do both tomorrow, but you will have to tell me who it is, and which ones (photos) they are (and where they are).
Have you contacted the individual? Perhaps they can alert me which ones they lifted from your site. But I have no way of knowing unless I went through and memorized your site, and then went through every post on the Croton Society's Forum - which would of course be impossible."
crotons.net
Active Member
all croton photos under the thread ??? are my photos yes I emailed the individual they did apologize and have yet to delete the thread
Jerry@TreeZoo
Well-Known Member
Yes. It appears that the image of Sgt. Schulz was lifted too! Horrors!
Check out tineye.com. It is a photo recognizing website that you can search where an image came from. Not all images are on there but billions are. I believe you can register with them so they include your pics.
Check out tineye.com. It is a photo recognizing website that you can search where an image came from. Not all images are on there but billions are. I believe you can register with them so they include your pics.
